Kyriakos Mitsotakis summarized the New Democracy government’s economic achievements from 2019 to the present in an interview on the Today’s Battlegrounds podcast with H.R. McMaster.
The prime minister expressed his satisfaction with the current situation, while acknowledging that much more needs to be done.
“We have charted a very interesting course of fiscal discipline combined with very healthy growth. By the end of 2026, we will most likely no longer be the eurozone country with the highest public debt… I will not bequeath unsustainable debt to the next generation,”he emphasized.
The capital markets, he said,“trust Greece, as they know there is a capable government that will not succumb to populist temptations to return to policies of unsustainable benefits.”
On the issue of migration, he stated that“I will make it difficult to enter Greece, and I make no apologies for that. If you are not entitled to asylum, you will be returned; I will do everything I can to send you back to your country of origin… However, if you are strict on irregular migration, you must also be open to legal migration.”
Mitsotakis referred to Europe’s two priorities, competitiveness and defense, while regarding the relationship between Europe and the U.S., he emphasized the need“to find more opportunities for mutual trade, but also to respect each side’s rules.”
Regarding the war in Ukraine, he noted that Kyiv“has at least managed to make it clear that this war comes at a high cost to Putin. And the longer it continues, the greater the cost, because I don’t see any real progress on the military front.”
When asked about the war in the Middle East, the prime minister noted that “if a solution ever emerges—and I hope it will soon—regarding the Strait of Hormuz, and if a peacekeeping force is needed—not a peacekeeping force, but a peacekeeping force—we must be in a position to take action”.
Regarding Turkey, he reiterated that“our sovereignty and sovereign rights derive from international law and international treaties, and these cannot and must not be challenged under any circumstances… I will strengthen our armed forces. I have done so systematically. They are likely in better shape than ever.”
When asked about Greek-U.S. relations, he noted that they are at their best and spoke of“shared security interests, especially regarding the Eastern Mediterranean. “This is why Greece has many friends in both parties in the U.S. Congress; it is a bipartisan approach that is not embraced solely by the current administration.”
Commenting on the Greek political scene and his intention to seek a third term for his government, Kyriakos Mitsotakis said:
“The drive to continue is there, because it is quite easy for a country to take steps backward. That is why I will run for a third term—in Greece there is no term limit, such limits are usually absent in parliamentary systems—because I still believe there is work to be done and because I want to ensure that the changes we are implementing will be irreversible… There are so many problems to tackle; you have to set priorities, but I believe that in Greece we have made the right choices on the major fronts: strengthening the economy, strengthening our defense, and digitizing the state. These are important reforms we can rely on.”
Here is the Prime Minister’s full interview:
H.R. McMaster: Mr. Prime Minister, welcome to “Today’s Battlegrounds.” Thank you for taking the time to speak with me and our international audience. I’m very pleased to be here with you.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Thank you very much for having me. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.
H.R. McMaster: I’d like to start by talking about Greece and the truly impressive story of your premiership. Since you took office nearly seven years ago, you’ve achieved an astonishing economic recovery. In a recent interview with Bloomberg, you spoke about how Greece is generating a sustainable surplus and growing the economy, outpacing the rest of the eurozone in terms of growth. It has been an impressive recovery.
Could you perhaps share with our viewers the most important lessons you learned during this transformation effort and what advice you would give to other leaders facing situations like the one you experienced with the debt crisis? It was a fantastic recovery. Congratulations. And we look forward to hearing how you managed it.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: First of all, thank you very much for your kind words. It has certainly been an exciting journey, with its difficulties. As you pointed out, we took over the governance of the country seven years ago, and when the Greek people first placed their trust in us in 2019, we inherited a situation where the country’s reputation was still largely tarnished by the major economic crisis.
I would like to remind your viewers that Greece, during the second decade of the 21st century, suffered the largest drop in GDP in the history of any OECD country. In essence, the country went bankrupt. We had three stabilization programs, and our society paid a very heavy price. In 2015, we nearly exited the eurozone in disorder.
So, my first mission when I took over the governance of the country was to put Greece back on a path of sustainable growth, while stabilizing our public finances and ensuring that Greece would never again face significant macroeconomic imbalances.
And, indeed, if you look at our public finances today, seven years after we first made that commitment, I believe we have charted a very interesting course of fiscal discipline combined with very healthy growth.
If we examine the debt-to-GDP ratio, we will find that it has declined at the fastest rate in history among OECD countries. By the end of 2026, we will likely no longer be the eurozone country with the highest public debt. Given that we are talking about a country that has been burdened by high debt for many decades, I believe that this is likely the most significant political legacy I will leave behind—that I will not bequeath unsustainable debt to the next generation.
You can reduce your debt as a percentage of GDP, of course, only if you generate primary surpluses and significantly grow the economy; we have achieved both. We have created nearly 600,000 new jobs over the past seven years and reduced unemployment from 18% to as low as 8%. When we took over the government, investment as a percentage of GDP stood at 11%, while the European average was 21%; now it ranges between 17% and 18%.
This is, therefore, growth fueled by investment, which attracts foreign investment while simultaneously stimulating domestic investment. Of course, there is still much to be done. My main goal is real convergence with Europe in terms of disposable income and per capita GDP.
We know, therefore, that we must continue to grow the economy at a much faster pace than the rest of the eurozone for the foreseeable future. I believe, however, that we have laid the groundwork, because without fiscal discipline, macroeconomic imbalances will eventually return, with harmful consequences.
As far as I am concerned, restoring our credibility in the markets, ensuring that capital markets trust Greece, knowing that there is a capable government that will not succumb to populist temptations to return to unsustainable welfare policies, is something of the utmost importance.
It may also serve as a useful lesson for other governments currently grappling with their own debt and deficit problems. There are several countries in Europe today that are under the supervision of the European Commission because they cannot bring their deficits under control. Fortunately, Greece is no longer among them.
H.R. McMaster: This applies to the United States, as you know, Mr. Prime Minister, as well as to Japan and others. I think what you have achieved is to restore hope to a large number of citizens that yes, “this can be done.” I also admire your work on public administration reform and the fight against clientelism and corruption. You have uncovered certain cases of fraud involving European subsidies and other activities that also hindered growth and productivity and diverted resources. Could you tell us how you addressed the problem of corruption, clientelism, transactions for the benefit of third parties, and so on?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: First of all, I would say that the two are linked to some extent. If someone insists on patronage practices, they are very likely to spend more, because they are essentially buying votes through unsustainable benefits. I never believed that this was the right way to conduct politics.
So, we essentially completely overhauled the government’s “software,” established a much stronger center of governance within the Prime Minister’s Office, ensured proper accountability regarding the management of government affairs and coordination with all ministries, setting very clear annual goals and establishing very clear reporting systems.
All of this may not sound like rocket science, but I can tell you that in the field of governance, it is not always obvious that you can run a government using such fundamental principles. At the same time, we have invested heavily in the digital transformation of the state. We were lagging behind digitally. In fact, just recently, we celebrated the six-year anniversary of the launch of our“www.gov.gr” initiative.
What is this? It is essentially the central portal for all government affairs. It has been a huge success. It has allowed us to reduce bureaucracy and enable citizens to communicate with the government via their mobile phones. It has brought about a real transformation. Not only because we respect citizens—we don’t want them to wait in lines, we don’t want them to waste time on bureaucracy— but also because we’ve managed to save a lot of money, as well as uncover various pockets of corruption that are always hidden in complex bureaucratic procedures.
I remember that during the COVID pandemic, when I visited the United States, there were these handwritten vaccination certificates. In Greece, everything was done digitally. We have a digital ID. If you want to book an appointment with any doctor in Greece, you can do it through the MyHealth app—you just log in and do it. It helps that we’re not a federal state. We are a country of 10 million people. Therefore, it is feasible for the central government to implement these initiatives.
You mentioned the issue of agricultural subsidies. This is a long-standing problem: ensuring that the actual beneficiaries—farmers—receive the correct amount from EU funds. It took us time to move toward a genuine reform of the system, and for the first time, I am convinced that we are moving in that direction. It is an extremely complex issue. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of farmers who must declare their plots of land. The actual number of animals—the sheep and goats—in all the Greek mountains must be recorded.
No one bothered to examine the problem from a purely administrative perspective, but we did. Every transition is painful. Of course, with every transition and every reform, some people will be dissatisfied because they are used to operating in a certain way. That, however, has never been my code; governance is about change. It is about promoting an ambitious agenda for change, and any major change will displease some people.
For example, one of the major achievements of our second term was the fight against tax evasion. Everyone would have told you that such a thing was impossible in Greece; tax evasion was a chronic problem. In fact, it’s quite common in many countries in southern Europe. If you go to a tavern, they probably won’t give you a receipt. I’m giving you the simplest example. Well, that’s no longer the case. We use a combination of sophisticated artificial intelligence analytics and various electronic payment systems. That’s how we tackled tax evasion.
This is fair, because anyone who evades taxes does so at the expense of those who pay their taxes. It has also brought money into the public coffers and thus contributed to the primary surpluses. In fact, at a time when we are facing the major crisis of the cost of living, being able to at least use part of the surplus in a targeted manner, for the benefit of citizens who are most in need, is almost a “luxury.”
Most European governments are now forced to cut their budgets. I, at least, have some resources at my disposal, so the question is how to allocate them in the most effective way, always with respect for social justice. So we are in a good position and have proven that administrative reform and tackling what I call the “deep state” is something that can be done.
Of course, there are still many battles to be fought, but I believe that the overall mindset and attitude of Greek citizens toward the state have changed. I believe there is greater respect from the state toward citizens, because in the past it was almost a given that you had to submit to bureaucracy. You had to play by its rules. I believe we turned the situation around and said: “No, we will examine citizens’ problems, and if I can simplify citizens’ interaction with the state, I must do everything I can to achieve that, because that is how I respect taxpayers’ money—after all, they are the ones who pay for the government to function.”
H.R. McMaster: Mr. Prime Minister, I have often heard you speak about the false promises of populism and how important it is to be realistic. And I believe that as citizens lose trust in governments, they become receptive to these kinds of populist messages and false promises. I think you have turned the situation around in terms of transparency, accountability, and trust in the government.
However, beyond the issues of debt and governance, you are also facing the problem of mass migration, which persists, centered on the ongoing war in Libya, which has lasted for over a decade, and of course, until recently, the many instances of mass killings in the Syrian civil war and the refugee crisis it caused, as well as the fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban. You could perhaps speak about the issue of mass migration, of irregular migration, because it fuels populism to a large extent throughout Europe.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: You are right to point out that the sharp rise of right-wing populism in Europe is largely due to irregular migration. And Europe has not been honest about the extent of the problem.
From the start of my term, we adopted a strict but fair approach to migration. To some extent, this was a result of our own experiences. In March 2020, we were essentially confronted with an organized effort to exploit migration, to send tens of thousands of desperate people who were in Turkey to cross our borders, because Turkey believed at the time that it could use this to put pressure on the European Union. We made it very clear that this would not happen. Therefore, we used the means at our disposal to protect our borders.
At that time, Europe was focusing primarily on so-called secondary movements. That is, what happens if someone enters the European Union, if they are supposed to be in Greece, what happens if they move to Germany.
I made it absolutely clear to my European counterparts that if we do not focus on what we call the external dimension of migration, the protection of our borders, ensuring that it is not the smugglers who decide who enters the European Union, we will not be able to solve the migration problem, because quite simply we will not be able to manage the scale of the flows.
Therefore, we have secured our borders, built a fence along our land border with Turkey, and are monitoring our maritime borders much more effectively. We have saved tens of thousands of people at sea. I want to be absolutely clear on that. But the work of the Coast Guard…
H.R. McMaster: That is an important aspect of the issue, isn’t it? It is also a humanitarian crisis.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: It is that, but it is also absolutely clear that the Coast Guard is not a reception committee for smugglers. Therefore, I will make it difficult to enter Greece, and I make no apologies for that. If you are not entitled to asylum, you will be returned; I will do everything I can to send you back to your country of origin.
Europe has changed its approach and has moved much closer to Greece’s position on migration. We now have new European legislation. We are focusing on returns. We need to let people who are not eligible for asylum know that they should not try to come to Europe, because we will do everything we can to send them back.
But, of course, we will accept those who reach Europe and are entitled to asylum. We have done so for tens of thousands of people. And if they choose to make Greece their home, we will welcome them. But that does not mean we will have an open-border policy.
At the same time, I believe that if you are strict on irregular migration, you must also be “open” when it comes to legal migration. It’s the analogy of the big fence and the big door. I want a big “fence” for irregular migration, but I also want a big “door,” which we will control, when it comes to legal migration.
I mentioned earlier the data on employment rates. We are already facing a labor shortage in the agricultural sector, in basic manufacturing, and in services. So why not conclude bilateral mobility agreements with countries with which we have good relations and bring these people here legally and safely? To work in Greece, to be officially registered, to pay social security contributions. It’s a proposal that benefits both sides. But to do this, we must ensure that we address the problem of irregular migration. So I believe we’ve found a satisfactory balance.
Yes, we always face challenges. For example, you mentioned Libya. We have a problem in Libya right now. There is a new route opening up from eastern Libya to Crete. We are working with our Libyan counterparts. We have offered, for example, to train their coast guard. We want to cooperate with these countries. These people must not set sail from the Libyan coast, because they are boarding vessels that are extremely dangerous and certainly unseaworthy.
So we want them not to leave the coast, or, in the event that they do set sail from the Libyan coast, we want the Libyan coast guard to intercept them and return them to Libya. We must therefore cooperate with the transit countries, and that is what we are doing. I am not yet satisfied with the results, but of course we will continue to address this challenge. However, if I look at the big picture in terms of numbers, there is a significant decrease compared to what was happening a few years ago.
H.R. McMaster: You mentioned earlier that Greece has served as an example within the European Union regarding these changes in the approach to irregular migration. Another area is that of regulation. I’m thinking of the Draghi report on European competitiveness and the fact that Europe appears to be overregulated in a way that hinders its economic growth and competitiveness, especially in new technologies related to artificial intelligence, for example, and advanced manufacturing. Could you share with our viewers your assessment of some of the changes the EU needs to make to boost economic growth and competitiveness?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: First of all, I’m glad you mentioned the Draghi report. For your viewers who aren’t exactly sure what it is, it’s an interesting document drafted by the former Italian Prime Minister, which essentially highlights what Europe needs to do to become more competitive and points out that over the past 20 years we have essentially been facing a gradual but quite significant erosion of our competitiveness.
You mentioned overregulation. The truth is that there are clearly shortcomings regarding overregulation in the business environment. This is a major priority for the Commission—essentially, the removal of unnecessary regulations. It is a major issue for us and for me. We have what we call the single market. It consists of 27 Member States. In theory, one can do business in all of them without any barriers. In practice, however, this is not the case.
So let’s see how we can transform this market of nearly 500 million customers into a truly single market, in the same way that someone can operate between California and Nevada without anyone asking for a lot of unnecessary paperwork.
The same must apply when someone wants to do business between Greece and Italy or Greece and Estonia. Thus, for example, the creation of a new legal entity—what we call “EU Inc.”— registering a startup in any European country, and the ability to operate seamlessly across all European countries would represent a radical change for our new tech companies.
Energy. How can we be competitive in the energy sector? This is a key factor in production, especially in manufacturing. Europe has a very strong tradition of high-quality manufacturing, but this has been undermined. Not only by high energy costs, but also by issues of unfair competition, such as massive imports from China. All these issues are, therefore, at the heart of the European agenda.
So, when you think about Europe, what are our two priorities? The first is competitiveness. The second is defense. These are the two issues we are really focusing on as the European Union, and a topic we will discuss at the next European Council, which will take place next week, where we must make some important decisions, not regarding the direction—I think the direction has been agreed upon—but regarding the speed and sense of urgency we must adopt to move truly quickly toward a direction that will make Europe competitive again.
For example, in Europe we save a lot, but we channel our savings to the US. Because we don’t have what we call a Savings and Investment Union, we don’t have a European capital markets union. If a company wants to go public, it is much more advantageous to seek a listing on the NASDAQ than on any European stock exchange. This needs to change, because it’s not just about public money or European money; it’s also about mobilizing private capital. Unfortunately, as you know, smart investors aren’t really “betting” on Europe right now, and that’s something that needs to change.
H.R. McMaster: Mr. Prime Minister, everything you mentioned here regarding the importance of collective defense in Europe and NATO, energy security, the growth of our economies, and countering Chinese economic aggression—you mentioned overproduction and the mass dumping of Chinese products, which are driving European, American, and other companies into bankruptcy, as just one form of economic aggression— all of this sounds as if it were part of a positive agenda for the US and Europe. And it leaves me speechless that we find ourselves in a confrontation, in an atmosphere of unnecessary insults and tensions, which have, in my opinion, worsened to some extent due to the war with Iran. Could you perhaps describe what your positive agenda for transatlantic relations would be? You have publicly stated that you are a committed supporter of them.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I studied in the U.S. I was recently back at Harvard for the 30th anniversary of my class’s graduation from the Business School. I believe that the U.S.-Europe relationship has set the example for a rules-based global order, which has not only ensured stability and opportunities for growth but has also worked positively for both Europe and the U.S. Therefore, I do not count myself among those who underestimate this relationship, despite the current turbulence. I am a realist. However, I believe there are proposals that are mutually beneficial.
For example, regarding trade, a new balance has emerged as a result of recent tariffs, but ultimately we must find more opportunities for mutual trade while respecting each side’s rules. I want American tech companies to operate in Europe, but if Europe takes seriously, for example, the protection of children and adolescents regarding access to social media, these companies must respect the fact that this is a priority for us.
As far as defense is concerned, President Trump was right—and you know quite a bit about defense matters—when he pointed out that Europe was essentially a “free rider” in the defense sector—not Greece, because “little” Greece has always spent 2% of its GDP on defense, due to the special circumstances regarding Turkey—however, we are now spending more on defense.
And if Europe builds its own strategic autonomy, that will be positive for NATO. The U.S. should not feel threatened by this. And yes, we will also develop our own domestic defense ecosystem. But if we spend more on defense, NATO as a whole will be strengthened.
So I believe that, ultimately, there is a deep bond that unites us. And when we look at the big issues concerning global governance—I mean the major challenges, benefits, and costs of artificial intelligence… At some point, artificial intelligence cannot simply be a kind of “Wild West” of innovation, without us understanding that this is a technology that will have profound implications; unfortunately, I believe this is how the U.S. approaches the issue.
Therefore, we will continue to strive to cooperate with the US, both as Europeans and as Greeks.
We maintain a very strong bilateral partnership with the US, which I respect, and which is not limited solely to defense and security issues. And yes, I also believe that when it comes to issues such as managing relations with China, especially given that China now accounts for 30% of global industrial production capacity and is essentially capable of destroying industries across the world, certainly in Europe, this is an issue we must address with the utmost seriousness. We cannot simply allow the complete destruction of our industrial base just because we are always looking for the cheapest product, especially when unfair trade practices are involved.
Therefore, this is an issue that requires careful study, and I speak as a European who, as you know, supports free trade. Greece is a maritime nation. We control 25% of the world’s merchant fleet. We depend heavily on shipping. However, free trade does not mean trade without rules, and certainly the creation of some sort of level playing field is important for trade to function properly.
H.R. McMaster: Mr. Prime Minister, I perceive this threat as a result of Chinese economic aggression, but also of the consolidation we have observed in recent years of what I would call “the axis of aggressive powers”: the two revanchist powers of the Eurasian continent, Russia and China, which have drawn other authoritarian regimes into their camp. We are speaking on the day Xi Jinping is visiting Pyongyang, while North Korea has troops—15,000 men—fighting on European soil. And the kind of material support we have seen China provide to Russia in its attack on Ukraine, the support that China and Russia provide to Iran in its long-running wars against its Arab neighbors, Israel, the United States, and others. How do you view this axis of aggressive powers, and what else could the United States and Europe do together—while bringing others into the effort—to prevent the further escalation of these chain reactions? What else can be done to restore peace at this point?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: First of all, I believe that the war in Ukraine—Russia’s invasion of Ukraine—marked a turning point for Europe. War has returned to the European continent. We believed that something like this would never happen. Those of us who, at least, grew up after the fall of the Berlin Wall, found it completely inconceivable that we would ever face a conflict longer than World War I and with such a huge number of casualties.
Therefore, for all of us, it was a reminder of the facts on the ground—especially for us Europeans—but also of the fundamental principle that you cannot change international borders by force. That was one of the lessons of World War II. Just as, if that happens, you must defend yourself and you must support the country that is defending itself against an attack.
We did this in Europe. The U.S. certainly did so as well, and rightly so, because ultimately we do not want to return to an environment where the law of the strong prevails, where the strong do as they please and the weak submit to the wishes of the strong.
The fact, then, that Ukraine is now in a position to defend itself, having developed innovative technologies with significant European support—both military and economic—I believe sends an important message to any aggressor. In this sense, Ukraine has at least managed to make it clear that this war comes at a high cost to Putin. And the longer it goes on, the higher the cost, because I don’t see any real progress on the military front. So I believe this has set an important precedent.
And, as I have mentioned, it has forced us, here in Europe, to take the issue of our security seriously. And when I speak of security in general, I do not mean only Ukraine; I am referring to the Middle East and Africa. We are located in the southeastern corner of Europe. We are very concerned about developments in the Middle East. If there is a crisis in Sudan—and indeed there is—war in Sudan, a humanitarian crisis, it will inevitably spread to Europe through migration flows. So, I would say, becoming more pragmatic and realistic about the fact that we live in a complex world, and developing our own capabilities so that we can even exercise hard power if necessary, I think is an important step for Europe.
For example, we have ships in the Red Sea protecting the sea lanes from Houthi attacks. Greece has a ship there. We should be able to support initiatives of this kind. If a solution ever emerges—and I hope it will soon—regarding the Strait of Hormuz, and if a peacekeeping force is needed—not a peacekeeping force, but a peacekeeping force— we must be in a position to take action.
If our Arab friends—and I am speaking again as a European—come under attack, we must be in a position to support them, to support them in a meaningful way, not just with fine words, but to be in a position to take action and say: ‘We stand by your side,’ because, at the end of the day, this is not just a matter of principle; it is also a matter of interest.
That is why I am really urging Europe to take its security more seriously. This will require the commitment of more resources. These should not be only national resources, but could also be European resources, which could be directed toward projects of common interest. Security is the ultimate public good. Therefore, if there are European projects for common security that make us all safer, they could be funded from the European budget. Even more accurately: they should be funded by the European budget.
H.R. McMaster: We have, Mr. Prime Minister, already discussed many of the complex challenges you face regarding security and prosperity, but we have not specifically addressed a rather significant challenge concerning Greek-Turkish relations and the disputes, I would say, in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean regions, regarding the approach Turkey has been following for quite some time now—the “Blue Homeland” doctrine— under which it extends its maritime jurisdiction over a large part of the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean. And tensions are rising. I think that initially, when you took office as Prime Minister, there was a certain lull, I would say, in relations between Turkey and Greece, but it seems that tensions are rising. Can you share with our viewers the current state of the relationship with Ankara on issues such as sovereignty in the Aegean? And what is your view on the security situation in the Mediterranean and how it should be?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Greek-Turkish relations have always been complex, and I seek, I would say, a functional and—why not?—constructive relationship with Turkey. Geography dictates that we are destined to live side by side. That will never change. Nevertheless, it is true that over the past decade, Turkey has acted as a revisionist power, particularly in terms of projecting its ambitions at sea. This conflicts with international law. Therefore, what I have said and made absolutely clear is that Greece’s sovereignty and sovereign rights will never be challenged. Our sovereignty and sovereign rights derive from international law and international treaties, and these cannot and must not be challenged under any circumstances.
We have a major dispute with Turkey regarding the delimitation of maritime zones in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean. If Turkey has other claims, we do not recognize them; they are completely unfounded, and no Greek Prime Minister would ever be willing to participate in any discussion or negotiation regarding these claims.
I have made this absolutely clear to President Erdoğan, with whom I maintain a functional and, I would say, good relationship. I have met with him many times, and I would say that over the past two to three years there has been a reasonable de-escalation of tensions. Sometimes we see spikes in activity and rhetoric; we saw one last month. I hope that it can be contained again.
However, I am not naive. I will strengthen our armed forces. I have been doing so systematically. They are likely in better shape than ever. We need a strong deterrent capability. We must invest in qualitative superiority wherever we can.
And, of course, we need strong alliances. We are members of the European Union; there is a mutual assistance clause in the Treaty on European Union, which I want to make operational and give a real foundation to, so that it is not just something we talk about in theory. We have a very strong partnership with Israel. We have strong partnerships with the Gulf countries.
So, a strong economy, strong defense, strong alliances, but at the same time a willingness to cooperate with Turkey, while setting absolutely clear red lines regarding what can be discussed and what cannot. I would say that this is the right approach to dealing with Turkey.
H.R. McMaster: Mr. Prime Minister, I’d like to discuss a bit more about U.S.-Greece relations, which, as you know, are quite strong. There is a wonderful Greek-American community here in the United States, and these ties lead, I believe, to a truly deep connection between our countries. I see our bilateral relations strengthening from a defense perspective. What is your agenda for U.S.-Greece relations in the future?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I believe our relations are stronger than ever. This is a relationship that, I believe, transcends governments and terms in office. Because it is based, I believe, on two pillars. You mentioned one of them: there is an amazing Greek-American community, which serves as a natural bridge between our two countries. And the second is our shared security interests, especially regarding the Eastern Mediterranean. That is why Greece has many friends in both parties in the U.S. Congress; this is a bipartisan approach that is not embraced solely by the current administration.
We can and will do more. For example, I mentioned shipping. If the U.S. wants to export more liquefied natural gas—a priority for the current administration—and Europe wants to buy LNG, who will transport that LNG? Twenty-five percent of the world’s LNG carriers are owned by Greeks, which gives us an advantage. If the U.S. wants to export natural gas to Europe, why not use Greece as a gateway? We’ve done it before. We have the vertical corridor for supplying our northern neighbors, which extends all the way to Ukraine.
If you want to focus on IMEC, the plan for the connection between India, the Middle East, and Europe, just look at the map—Greece is the natural entry point for continental Europe.
Even when it comes to purely business opportunities, we are open to partnerships, and there are many interesting investment opportunities for U.S. capital to invest in Greece. This is, therefore, a particularly broad relationship that, I would say, goes beyond security and defense.
But I want to focus on the Greek-American community, because for the first time we have granted the right to vote by mail. You can indeed vote by mail, something that was not possible in Greece. This will happen for the first time in the upcoming elections, so we want Greeks who are eligible to vote to participate in our elections. They will be able to do so for the first time in the next elections, in 2027.
And of course, from a historical perspective, when you celebrate the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, just look at how much the founders of the U.S. were influenced by ancient Greece and…
H.R. McMaster: I have here, Mr. Prime Minister, a book I’m reading, *The Pursuit of Happiness*.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I should read it. Who is the author?
H.R. McMaster: It’s by Jeffrey Rosen. It’s a fantastic book. The subtitle is: “How the classical writers on virtue inspired the lives of the Founding Fathers and shaped America.”
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, there you have it. But our own Founding Fathers were also inspired by your struggle for independence, when we too fought for our own independence in 1821. And it is interesting that the founders of the two countries communicated with one another. There are letters exchanged between Jefferson and Adamantios Korais, who was, in a way, the intellectual inspiration behind Greek independence. It is, therefore, a fascinating story. And, of course, we fought together many times, in two wars. America was there to help with our reconstruction after World War II, when Greece had also been devastated by a civil war. So these are very strong ties, and we need to speak openly about them and build on them.
H.R. McMaster: Absolutely. And celebrate them. You’ve been very generous with your time. I have one last question I’d like to ask you: could you share with our viewers what led you to public service and tell us a few words about your philosophy on leadership?
I’ve heard you say that being underestimated is a great advantage. You’ve also spoken about the need for a leader to unite, to lead a party where many different views coexist. But I know our viewers will benefit greatly from hearing what led you to public service and your philosophy on leadership.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: My journey, coming from a political family, has essentially had its ups and downs. My father was Prime Minister. I was always fascinated by public service, but at a certain point, disappointed by the fact that my father lost an election, I decided I wanted to pursue a career in the private sector, and for nearly a decade I didn’t want to hear anything about politics. So, I took my first steps in business and in the venture capital sector. It was an exciting experience for me.
At some point, I realized that remaining neutral and simply expressing opinions on how your country could change isn’t a particularly constructive approach. So, I decided to take the plunge and, at some point, I decided to run for the leadership of my party, even though the odds were not in my favor—I was clearly the underdog. In the end, I won, and then I prevailed in two national elections. I transformed my party, broadened its appeal, making it absolutely clear that I am a modernizer and that I would pursue change rather than continuity.
When I look back sometimes, these things still fascinate me. It’s been a long journey. Time flies when you take on these responsibilities, but the energy to keep going is there, because it’s quite easy for a country to take steps backward. That is why I will run for a third term—in Greece there is no term limit, there are usually no such limits in parliamentary systems—because I still believe there is work to be done and because I want to ensure that the changes we are implementing will be irreversible.
As I have told you, we have made many sacrifices as a country. We have made great progress, but problems remain. Even today, we face a serious problem regarding the cost of living. There are still citizens who are struggling, and many reforms that need to be implemented.
You have to accept the fact that there are so many problems to tackle; you have to set priorities, but I believe that in Greece we have made the right choices on the major fronts: strengthening the economy, strengthening our defense, and digitizing the state. These are important reforms we can build on.
I would say, then, that every leadership story is different, but I believe what unites them is the deep need, the desire to be able to make changes and, essentially, to shoulder the burden of responsibility with dignity, because you have to be accountable and make decisions. Our job is to make decisions on a daily basis—dozens of decisions every day. You won’t make only the right decisions; that’s for sure. But the one thing you can’t do in our line of work is not make decisions.
H.R. McMaster: I don’t know how to thank you for being with us. I’d like to give you the floor—is there a final message you’d like to send to our viewers?
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I’m a big fan of your podcast, and I hope your viewers enjoy it.
H.R. McMaster: Prime Minister, Mr. Mitsotakis, I cannot thank you enough for joining us on today’s show. And I want to thank you for your steadfast and strong leadership in support of the Greek democracy and the Greek-American partnership. I truly believe that you embody the kind of leadership we need to unite people and reverse the polarization we see in political life these days. So thank you for being with us. It was truly a pleasure.
Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Thank you very much. Take care.